Professional Development for Nurses with Rachael Murray
Neonatal nurse practitioner Rachel Murray joins your host Beth Quaas to talk about her shift from nursing to also start working as a professional development trainer. She studied at Dale Carnegie Training, which gave her a unique perspective on how to train others. The program fanned her passion to educate people. She and Beth discuss her training methods she’s learned and how these training methods could (and should!) be used in training nurses as well as administrators.
ABOUT RACHAEL
Rachael has been a Registered Nurse since 2004 and, subsequently, a Neonatal Nurse Practitioner since 2011. As a clinician, she was frequently responsible for mentoring and training new staff and quickly realized she loved it! This lead her to pursue a second career in professional development training in 2014 through Dale Carnegie Training, in which she worked with individuals and teams from a variety of industries and eventually became certified as a Master Trainer responsible for developing and certifying prospective trainers. In 2020, she decided to combine her two passions of nursing and training when she started Elevate Nurses LLC, a business dedicated to providing quality training to Registered Nurses. Rachael has served as Chair of her organization’s Professional Practice Council, President of the San Diego Chapter of the Association of California Nurse Leaders (ACNL), co-chair of the state-level ACNL Communications and Voice committee, as well as lead of several sub-committees for the San Diego Chapter. Rachael was born and raised in Wisconsin but has been escaping the cold in SoCal for almost a decade.
LINKS
Rachael on LinkedIn
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Intro/Outro:
Welcome to Don't Eat Your Young, a nursing podcast with your host, Beth Quaas. Before we get started, we have a few quick notes. Don't Eat Your Young is a listener supported podcast. To learn more about becoming a member and the perks available to you for becoming a patron yourself, visit patreon.com/donteatyouryoung. You can learn more about the show, share your story to join Beth as a guest, or connect with our wonderful community in our Facebook group. You can find all those links and more at donteatyouryoung.com. And now, on with the show.
Beth Quaas:
Welcome to Don't Eat Your Young. I'm your host, Beth Quaas. Today, I'm excited to have Rachael Murray on the show. She's been a nurse practitioner in neonatology for several years, but she also did something different. She went to the Dale Carnegie Institute and became a professional development trainer, and I'm excited to have her on and hear her views on how we can incorporate that into nursing and healthcare. So, hi Rachael. Thanks for being on the show. How are you?
Rachael Murray:
I'm good. Thanks for having me, Beth. How are you?
Beth Quaas:
Well, it's very cold here in Minnesota today, but I think you being in San Diego, you're not dealing with the same issues.
Rachael Murray:
No, I'm not. But actually it's raining and I was just thinking about how crazy it is having so much rain in SoCal this year. It's been a lot, but it's not the same as the Midwest. I remember those winters growing up a lot.
Beth Quaas:
Yeah, you know as well as I do how it can be around here.
Rachael Murray:
I sure do.
Beth Quaas:
Well, thanks. Tell us a little bit about yourself, Rachael.
Rachael Murray:
So I'm a neonatal nurse practitioner. I started nursing in 2004. It was my first degree and I jumped right into the NICU from undergrad. So I did NICU for a while and I did ER, went back to grad school and did ped's urgent care while I was in school and actually got my PNP first and then decided before my program was even done, I think I was about three or four months away from graduating when I realized I didn't want to be a PNP. So that was fun. So I finished that out, but I also did a postmaster's neonatal program. So I have been practicing as a neonatal nurse practitioner since, geez, I think about 2011. And then one of the big things that I know we'll talk about today is my role in professional development. So about two years after that, 2013 is when I started doing a lot of professional development training on the side.
I took a course through Dale Carnegie Training, which is a personal professional development training company that has been around for well over a hundred years. Some people are really familiar with it, some not so much, but it's been around for a long time, and I firmly believe that's because the training is just that good and it works well. So I took that and I dove right into becoming a trainer. I had had some background in education, a lot of precepting primarily, and I was a clinical educator or clinical preceptor, excuse me. But when I found training, it was really clear to me that that was something that I wanted to do, that I could do and I just dove in. So I've been working as an NNP and as a trainer primarily for Dale Carnegie Training and then some on my own, largely for the better part of almost probably nine years now, I've been doing both roles.
Beth Quaas:
And what made you want to look into becoming a professional development trainer?
Rachael Murray:
I sort of had this feeling in the back of my mind that I wanted to do something related to education, but I wasn't quite sure what it was. And I had that for the longest time, even as I was in grad school to be a nurse practitioner, I knew there was something else. And now knowing what I know, the reason why I couldn't quite find it is because training, that's not an advanced practice option for a nurse. You can go into education, but to be a trainer doesn't exist. I didn't even know what it was. So I had this nudge, yet nothing quite fit. Now how I see how it fits perfectly with me. So to answer your question, it was kind of always there. I just didn't really realize it. And what it took was for me to meet the right person. So I met somebody when I was living in Wisconsin, who was a Dale Carnegie trainer, and he opened me up to that whole world. So I took a program and as soon as I was there, I said, "Oh yeah, this is it. This is for me, for sure."
Beth Quaas:
And let's even go back a step farther. So tell us what is a professional development trainer?
Rachael Murray:
If you think about sitting in a classroom, you are largely listening to somebody speak or you are watching a PowerPoint, maybe a video. There's a lot of knowledge transfer. You're leaving and hopefully you're a little bit smarter than you were when you walked in. What training really looks at is not just knowledge transfer, but it goes beyond that to skill transfer. So the idea being that when I walk into a training space, there is some knowledge and skill deficit that I have, and when I leave, I not only understand how to develop the skill, but indeed, I am better at it in just the few hours that I've been there.
So for example, as a nurse, you wouldn't just read a book on how to start an iv, you would also do it, you would practice it, you would ideally practice it with a coach, with somebody right next to you. It's the same concept, only it's really for what a lot of people refer to as the "soft skills". Building confidence, managing stress, communicating more clearly, all of those good things. So it's not like a PowerPoint lecture, "Let's talk about it." But it's a training space where you actually practice skills and tools under the supervision of a professional coach trainer ie., me in this case that we're talking about. And so when you walk out of the room, you literally have better skills than you did when you came in.
Beth Quaas:
How is that not part of nursing curriculum?
Rachael Murray:
Oh my God, I know.
Beth Quaas:
Now that you explain that, oh my gosh. We all need that. And I'm an educator, I need that.
Rachael Murray:
Yeah, everybody needs it, right? I mean, because you can only do so much just by talking about how to learn a certain skill. You at some point have to do it. And no, I completely agree with you. The fact that this type of training doesn't exist very much in the nursing space really boggles my mind because the end result of what a nurse does is so vital and so important. It's crazy to me that we don't give nurses every opportunity to develop these skills, the highest level of training that exists.
Beth Quaas:
We've had the same educational system in nursing for way too long and I think we all realize now it's time to change and blow that up and redefine what nurses need today. So this has to be part of moving forward.
Rachael Murray:
Yeah, I agree. I'm actually meeting with someone tomorrow at a local school of nursing. Fingers crossed, they understand my vision as well because I'm with you. It should be part of the curriculum if you ask me.
Beth Quaas:
Absolutely. Now that I know what it is, it has to be, and I know that you're working not just in working with the school, but moving forward to train nurses outside of school, correct?
Rachael Murray:
So I have my own business, correct. It's called Elevate Nurses, and I have done some coaching and training through that. And I do through involvement with my local organization, I still work in a hospital. I do trainings at staff meetings. Well, there are a lot of other nuances and places in the organization without giving too many details that are boring, but yes, inside the organization as well.
Beth Quaas:
Oh, that's fantastic. When you go into that school and say they gave you free rein to do whatever you wanted, what would it look like?
Rachael Murray:
If I'd had free rein to do whatever I wanted, I mean, first of all, you have to give somebody what's actually useful to them. So I'd have to have that conversation. But what seems most useful in my mind, what I would do if I could do anything I wanted, is I would actually have a training program that lasted several days. Maybe one day a week for five weeks. I mean, I don't know, that's just an example. But it would be a time phased learning program where you work on building skills as you go, and there's coaching and training in it as well as support throughout the weeks if anybody needs it. That would be the tip-top ideal. But not everybody likes to spend that much time on everything. So either way, I would still say at the very least, if I could have nurses in the room or nursing students in the room for at least one full day where I could just really work, get down to business quickly, that would be ideal.
Beth Quaas:
What did your training look like?
Rachael Murray:
This is one of the reasons why I think Dale Carnegie Training is just superior, in my opinion. Of course, I'm biased because the training was really rigorous. I graduated from one of their programs in February of 2014, and I instantly dove into being what they call a graduate assistant. So you basically coach inside the program. You also are assigned participants that you coach throughout the weeks. So I got a lot of practice just coaching, and that's really wide open. It might be coaching basically on certain tools that we talked about or revisiting them.
Or it might even be things like, "Hey, I'm having problems with my coworker or my husband or my kid or my whatever." Or, "My confidence is in the toilet." So it's just really wide open. And once you coach a few times, then you go through a series of two certification events. The first one is basically geared towards how to actually be a trainer, which isn't easy frankly. I mean I love it, so I dove in. But it's a lot of work. It's professional facilitation, which that in and of itself, I realize not a lot of people have training in. People who facilitate day in and day out, they still don't have a lot of training in how to facilitate well. So it's professional facilitation, it's how to give presentations, how to coach in the moment.
There's a lot of focus on those main things, but basically how to control a training environment so that you keep a culture in that room that is really safe and conducive to learning. So that's like number one has to be there. You have to learn how to do that. And then once you've got that, it's how do you customize the training for your audience so that it is completely relatable and relevant to them? That's the first part of the training process. And then the second part of the certification is specific to content for that, for the Dale Carnegie organization. It's about a year because then you go into the... What did we call it? I can't remember the term, but it's essentially student training, right? Then you're in the room, student teaching kind of. So yeah, it's about a year.
Beth Quaas:
Okay, so now this is not even just for nursing students, this is now for nursing educators like me, because why wouldn't I need something like that?
Rachael Murray:
That's another thing. If I could get my hands on a room full of nursing educators and just show them how to facilitate, just a few tools that would make the room come alive more, I would love to do it. I was certified through Dale Carnegie as a master trainer. What that means is I am certified how to teach others how to facilitate. So yeah, if you got a group of educators, I'd love to work with them.
Beth Quaas:
Well, funny you mentioned that I happen to know a group. I would say nursing education, for most of us, we know the content to teach. And I will speak from my experience, I was a nurse anesthetist for over 20 years. And so I taught students clinically for many years. Walking into the classroom and teaching them the information that they need to pass boards is completely different than teaching them in a clinical space. And I don't think very many nursing educators get a course on how to teach and how to set up their content. That's why I think this would be equally as important for those people teaching.
Rachael Murray:
Yeah, absolutely. I understand what you mean. I mean, the difference between a clinical space and an academic space is huge, and being able to bridge that gap and distill things down to a one-hour class or two-hour class has got to be a huge skill to develop.
Beth Quaas:
And there is so much content, and there is actually so many new things that weren't even known when I was a student. So I am learning about all the new names of things and the new receptors they've found and the new drugs and how much there is to know. So to be able to have some kind of training to kind of bring that all out, like you said, to make it engaging material and making students want to be there and learn, I think is a skill that we could all use as well.
Rachael Murray:
There's a lot that goes into it, but just one thing I'll say to you right off the bat, is so much of it is really understanding the goals of the individual students. Specifically, what are their pain points? Do they want to be able to walk in and feel super confident? Is the issue that they feel dumb for lack of a word, talking in front of physicians. What is really their pain point? And if you can tap into that, understand what that is, and then show them how your content will get them there, that is huge.
And it sounds very obvious, but I notice a lot of facilitators don't do that, especially in healthcare. At least what I see in my organization, the facilitators that are brought in, there's sort of this assumption that, "Oh, well, the goal of nurses is just to do good and give good care." Well, sure, that's one of them, but when they're going home at the end of the day, what is it that they're so frustrated by? If I could make your day better or perfect in one way, what would it be? Really understanding what that is and then just showing how your content can get them there.
Beth Quaas:
That's fantastic, and that's what you have to do when you build your business too. You have to know who you're going to target and what do they need, what can you offer that they need, which is exactly, step one. That's amazing what you just said because it just brought so much to my mind. So I appreciate that and I'm excited to have you here to talk more about it because I've never met anyone that went through the Dale Carnegie Institute to become a trainer, nor did I really understand what it was. And so you're shedding light on a lot of things here.
Rachael Murray:
Thanks. Well, I love that you're giving me a platform to talk about it, because you're not alone. I've been doing this, like I said, nine years probably for the Dale Carnegie Training, and just so few people really understand what it is. Most people haven't even heard of it, so I just get a lot of blank stares. And in the healthcare world, that just drives me crazy, that that's where we are with training.
Beth Quaas:
This is just going blowing my mind. Can you imagine if a bunch of hospital administrators had gone through that training and knew what to ask what their employees needed? Could you imagine working in that facility and how amazing that would be?
Rachael Murray:
I know, yeah, I hear you. It would be night and day.
Beth Quaas:
I think you are on the tip of something incredible, and what you're doing can work in so many different ways. Students, educators, administrators, and I'm sure you've seen this just in work groups too. If you come together and you're trying to solve a problem or work together, understanding what everybody needs is so important.
Rachael Murray:
Absolutely. And you're right that training is applicable to all sorts of different professions, right? You're talking about healthcare, but yeah, my background in Dale Carnegie Training is across all industries, all professions. So you're absolutely right. I mean, I have not met any person, regardless of role, title, industry, who cannot benefit from actual training. So you're right. I mean, everybody could use it, myself, us, everyone.
Beth Quaas:
Everyone. So nurses out there looking, "What can I do next?" I guess I'd say go check out becoming a Dale Carnegie trainer in professional development, because Rachel, you're going to blow the top off of this, I believe.
Rachael Murray:
Oh, thank you. That's my plan, Beth. That is my plan.
Beth Quaas:
So when you go in tomorrow to meet with those people from the school, how will you approach it?
Rachael Murray:
The woman I'm meeting with tomorrow is I would say an acquaintance of a colleague. And I specifically reached out to her because I said to my friend, my colleague, "Hey, I'm looking for somebody in the school system that is open to new ideas and is friendly to big visions. And who is it? Is it this woman? Who can you find me?" And she pointed me to her. So basically my biggest goal for tomorrow is to share my vision and to find someone inside the system that shares that as well and thinks it's a good idea and really can help point me in the right direction because I don't have a background in academia, obviously I was a student, but that's about it. So what are some of the challenges that I might run into? Can this be done? Can I come into schools and work with nursing students? Yes or no? And if yes, what does that look like? How do we make it work? If no, fine, but where else can I go? So it's just informative, trying to navigate the academic system.
Beth Quaas:
So going back and relating this to the clinical world, how do you use this every day when you're dealing with families?
Rachael Murray:
Oh my gosh. My ability to communicate and work with families. I mean, it's almost immeasurable, the difference and how much better I am at it than I was when I started my career. And I am positive, it's a result of a lot of the trainings that I've had. So first of all, I communicate differently just as a result of all the trainings that I've done. So I use my own content and content of other people's and Dale Carnegie's content, all the time. To the point where it's almost just automatic in how I behave now.
But I can use it clinically with other colleagues where occasionally I'll offer advice. People will need help with a certain problem, and I can give them a tip. And like I said, I have gone into staff meetings a lot lately and been just giving quick snippets of advice, advice isn't even the right word. The extent that I can do a training in an hour because that's what I usually get for a staff meeting. And just give them ideas on how to work with parents, I say parents because I work with newborns, so patients or parents. And then I can work with other nurses to help them do the same. And I largely do that through coming to their staff meetings.
Beth Quaas:
Have you found anybody that wants to follow you and do that training?
Rachael Murray:
No. Oh, you mean to be to become a trainer? No.
Beth Quaas:
Yes.
Rachael Murray:
No.
Beth Quaas:
So hopefully after this podcast, we're going to get people that say, well, that sounds as amazing as I think it is, because it can only benefit people I think, in communicating better and knowing how to work with others better.
Rachael Murray:
And just to be clear, certainly people want to do trainings, but I have not found anyone who wants to be a trainer, which is fine.
Beth Quaas:
I do.
Rachael Murray:
Not everybody enjoys the... That's awesome. Well, there are other organizations, but I will say if anyone wants to be a trainer, I just love Dale Carnegie. I think their training vetting process is good. I think the way they train their trainers is phenomenal. So if I motivated anyone to go that route, that is an amazing organization to look into.
Beth Quaas:
There was a class that I taught, this was a while ago, but we referred students to look at Dale Carnegie's website because he has just a lot of free information on there, or that institute has a lot of free information that you can tap into as well.
Rachael Murray:
100%. What's really interesting is the program for them that I started delivering, at this point, I deliver so many programs for them. But the one that I started is really the flagship program, that's based on the book, How to Win Friends and Influence People. I would say maybe a quarter of the content, which is a pretty good amount, is available 100% free just in his books. Now, this is here where training is so important. You're going to read a book versus attend a training program. They're night and day. But to your point, yes, a lot of content is free. Free trainings, free books, free white papers. So it's a great resource that it's amazing to me that you actually pointed people there. I think that's amazing.
Beth Quaas:
Right. And I have his book, and I have to admit, I bought it because I knew who he was and I'd heard of him, and I haven't read it. Somehow I'm going to read it.
Rachael Murray:
Which one did you buy? How to Win Friends and Influence People?
Beth Quaas:
Yes.
Rachael Murray:
Yeah, certainly. I just think that he really nailed it in a lot of ways. I think of Dale Carnegie training as sort of the little black dress, which is a weird analogy, but it's the classic. It doesn't go out of style. And what I mean by that is in a lot of trainings that we do in the organization, it just taps into human behavior. And that hasn't changed. And there are a lot of people saying probably similar content that might be just as good, so I don't want to leave everyone out. But Dale Carnegie really was sort of the, at least as I understand it, the first person to map out how does somebody in the business world relate to people in a way that will make them successful? People were doing it for years, and then there were also people who were not. And he really sat down and figured out what are those people doing? And it's nothing earth-shattering, but he figured it out. And once you figure something out, then you can replicate it, then you can teach it to others. And that's what he did, and it's really amazing.
Beth Quaas:
Oh, that's incredible. Why did you even decide to look for that to do something different? I mean, you're a busy high demand job as a nurse practitioner anyway.
Rachael Murray:
So it goes back to that gentleman that I met who introduced me to Dale Carnegie and training in general. So it was twofold, number one, and this is probably the biggest thing, I met him, and when he would talk about it, he just said it changed his life. Simply put. And he had a little sparkle in his eye, and you see someone talk like that and you think, "Well, I want what they have, I want that." And I wasn't unhappy in my life in any way. I wasn't unsuccessful in any way. Everything was fine, but he just had that pizzazz kind of, and well, why not go after that? If he says this program here is the start to that. So that was really the main thing. And then secondly, I was super intrigued about his skill as a trainer. Like I said to you, I had this sort of bug in the back of my mind, "There's something more out there for me."
It's not quite education in the university system, but it's education esque. I didn't really know. I just was baffled by him. He had, what was his background in? I think he used to have his own construction company and his degree in school was maybe the business. I don't think so though. My point is, he's doing nothing relating to what he used to do, and yet he has this life that is really interesting and he's very good at it. And it's just a skillset that was in demand that I didn't even know existed. And so when I looked at him and I thought, "Wow, this is a skillset that you can just learn. You don't have to go to extra schooling. And it feels like it's something that might really fit with me." So that was another thing that was really attractive to me to look into it. So those two reasons.
Beth Quaas:
That's amazing. I think this whole conversation is very enlightening to me too, because I had heard of Dale Carnegie and I knew about some of the work he had done, but by putting the two together, healthcare and professional development, I think you are moving in the right direction.
Rachael Murray:
Yeah, I think so too, Beth. I don't think anybody is doing what I am starting or what I want to do.
Beth Quaas:
So tell us what you do within your business of Elevate Nurses right now.
Rachael Murray:
So that's kind of what I was talking about with developing trainings in my local organization. So there is a great opportunity for me to test content and deliver trainings for them. I also do sporadically, not a lot yet because I'm just starting out, but I do from time to time offer public trainings for communication and stress management. Those are like the two focuses or foci that I have right now.
Beth Quaas:
That's fantastic. Well, I can't wait to hear more about what you're doing because I think this is just the beginning of helping people understand how to communicate better with everybody in healthcare, students, educators, with our patients, with administrators, administrators, back to employees. I think this is going to grow very large.
Rachael Murray:
Yeah. Thank you, Beth. That's the plan, like I said. Thank you.
Beth Quaas:
So tell us what tips or advice can you share with nurses right now? I know we've talked a lot about those already, but what would you like to leave with nurses listening today?
Rachael Murray:
Certainly the idea that professional training is out there. So if you're not getting the help you need from your organization, be it one of those soft skills of communication, or learning how to be assertive, your confidence, or even if it's just general wellbeing and health and wellbeing for yourself, just know that there are a lot of great resources outside of your organization. That's what I did. I went outside of my organization and I found exactly what I needed. So I would really like for people to understand that that exists.
Beth Quaas:
I love that. And you've given them some great resources already today. And like I said, Dale Carnegie's website has free information all over it.
Rachael Murray:
Agreed. And one other tidbit, we talked a lot about Dale Carnegie, which is amazing, but right before I took his program, I remember reading the book, Crucial Conversations.
Beth Quaas:
Oh, yes.
Rachael Murray:
And I don't know if nursing students or nurses talk about that a whole lot anymore. I'm not sure, but I would just like to say I also found a lot of help from that book, completely free, a great book. And it really worked for me.
Beth Quaas:
I agree. I read that book when I was doing my doctorate program. That was one of the books we had to read. Extremely helpful. The other book that I think is incredible, and I've read it twice, is 7 Habits of Highly Effective People. That book as well, it changed my life.
Rachael Murray:
Oh, it did?
Beth Quaas:
There's a lot of things, like you said, I'm glad you brought that up. There are a lot of things out there that you can find that really will, even though it's just a book reading, then we find people like you to talk about it in person.
Rachael Murray:
Yeah, yes, exactly.
Beth Quaas:
Well, I am so excited that you came on and talked to us today, and I can't wait to follow you and see what more you do and where can people find you?
Rachael Murray:
So I am active on LinkedIn. I do have a presence on Facebook as well, and I do have a website, elevatenurses.com. Currently, it's down because I'm fixing a few things, but it exists. I have the domain, so it will be up and running shortly. You can also always email me at rachel@elevatenurses.com, and I would be happy to reach out to you.
Beth Quaas:
Fantastic. If you want more information, please reach out to Rachel and everything will be in the show notes. So thank you so much Rachel, and good luck with everything.
Rachael Murray:
Thanks again, Beth. Really appreciate chatting with you.
Beth Quaas:
This is Beth Quaas, your host of Don't Eat Your Young. And this is going to conclude another season of our podcast. I am so thankful for all of the people that have made this a possibility, especially the guests that have come on and given their time and shared their stories, their expertise, their inspiration for nurses out there, the listeners that keep coming back and downloading episodes. I'm amazed at how this podcast has grown. And I also have to thank my producers, Andy and Pete, that I certainly could not do this without. They take my stories and turn them into these podcast episodes, so I have to thank them.
And then the amazing Liz Trulio, who does all the behind the scenes things for me, created my brand, helped me with my website. She's the one that puts the reels on Instagram and helps me boast things on LinkedIn. She is just amazing. So I have to thank all of those people as well. You will hear us back here again soon for season four with more amazing guests. And if you would like to be a guest yourself, please reach out at any time. You can find information on my website. I also have a Patreon page that you can find episodes and content there, and let me know how things are going and what you want to hear more of. I appreciate all of you. That's a wrap.
Intro/Outro:
Don't Eat Your Young was produced in partnership with TruStory FM. Engineering by Andy Nelson. Music by The Light Hearts. Find the show notes and transcripts at donteatyouryoung.com. If your podcast app allows ratings and reviews, please consider doing that for our show. But the best thing you could do to support the show is to share it with a friend or colleague. Thank you for listening.
