The Compassionate Approach with Sandra Capito
In today’s episode – which was recorded September 2021, so information may be a bit out of date – nurse Sandra Capito joins your host Beth Quaas all the way from Melbourne, Australia, to talk about her work as a nurse to bring more compassion and empathy to the workplace for patients and fellow nurses. The goal? Making everyone feel worthy.
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About Sandra
I’ve been a Registered Nurse for 30 years. This amazing profession has provided me with knowledge and experiences in hospital care, community support, public health management, teaching, and disability. I have learned from and worked with some amazing human beings. These include both colleagues and patients and their families.
Looking back, the hours were long and at times relentless. The workloads were massive and exhausting – but we showed up everyday to provide care and safety to our patients.
Having returned into the “clinical setting” in 2021 during the worldwide pandemic, I was able to work again in a team – which I have always enjoyed. I began to observe the interactions around me. These were between nurse and patient; nurse to nurse and doctors; and nurse with student nurses and support staff-patient services assistants. As an outsider, you could easily conclude that it was a very well oiled machine – things seemed to be running well and everyone knew their role/function. As I have always been a very curious person, I would talk to and observe people. I would often be asked to lead the team and provide advice to nurses if they required it. As is my leadership style, I always made sure that everyone in my team was acknowledged and seen every shift.
What I observed was this:
The attitudes from senior staff directly affected the mood and “vibe” of the whole shift. Lack of effective and consistent communication left nurses vulnerable and disconnected. I noticed disengagement ( which looked like laziness) which then further perpetuated disconnection. I tended to aim for people who were in this category. I would ask them questions about themselves and how they felt about working. I would also share about myself.
Finding commonality has always been “my jam”. The interactions were often brief. My only goal was to acknowledge each individual as worthy and appreciated and that they mattered. Without fail, this changed their attitude. They were more likely to come to me if they had an issue or concern. They worked better and happier. They felt safe knowing we were all in this together. Simple I know, but effective.
We need as a profession to acknowledge each other's paths, similarities and differences and embrace them. Everyone has hidden talents and skills and we need all of them to help evolve and shape the future of nursing.
Sandra on
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Intro:
Welcome to Don't Eat Your Young, a nursing podcast with your host, Beth Quaas. Before we get started, we have a few quick notes. Don't Eat Your Young is a listener supported podcast. To learn more about becoming a member and the perks available to you for becoming a patron yourself, visit patreon.com/donteatyouryoung. You can learn more about the show, share your story to join Beth as a guest, or connect with our wonderful community in our Facebook group. You can find all those links and more at Don't Eat Your Young.com and now on with the show.
Beth Quaas:
Welcome to Don't Eat Your Young. Today I have Sandra Capito, she's an RN in Melbourne, Australia. I'm so excited to have somebody from so far away, so that we can hear a little bit about how things are in Australia. So welcome Sandra.
Sandra:
Thank you Beth, it's great to be here. Life in Melbourne at the moment is a bit crazy. We're still in lockdowns, this is our sixth lockdown. And we've got a lot of fear in the community at the moment and a lot of uncertainty as well. And so I'm coming from you from our living room, and if we're not working, or going out for appointments or shopping, we need to stay put. At the moment we have about a five kilometer radius that we're not allowed to go past, unless you are going to work.
So this is our life at the moment, and we're looking at a bit of light at the end of the tunnel with the vaccination rollout. And that's where I come in, I've been doing quite a bit of vaccinating at one of the statewide hubs here in Melbourne. And we are just churning out the vaccinations. And that's an area of real big reflection for me where I've come in as a senior nurse now, and looking and observing the newer nurses coming in. And it's just interesting to see the different dynamic, and I can recognize a lot of myself in those new nurses. So it's been, whilst it's a very transactional kind of nursing, with jabbing, and consenting and all that stuff. It's also been a great opportunity for me to see how far, or far we haven't evolved as nurses.
Beth Quaas:
The pandemic has affected everything. How do you think nurses in general have been affected? Both those nurses that have been out working for a long time, and those you see just coming in as they've trained through the pandemic?
Sandra:
The two things that I see a lot is exhaustion, and disconnection is probably the two biggest things. They're doing, they're not really feeling their way through nursing. They're just doing it, as a lot of them are in survival mode. And a lot of them feel so grateful that they have this job, there's that aspect. And then there's the other aspect where they're just like, "I'm done. I can't do this anymore." And they just get, I feel like they get smashed all the time with more work, with new rules, with new protocols to follow. All of it.
And then there's just this overwhelm, and they're stuck in this overwhelm, but they continue to be in the overwhelm. Because they feel they have to be in service all the time, "These people need us." And so there's a real conflict, I think, in how we are as nurses and how people perceive us to be. And I think as nurses, we don't want to let anybody down. I think that's in that [inaudible 00:04:10] a little bit, right? And it's universal everywhere. And I think there's a real conflict there with exhaustion and obligation.
Beth Quaas:
Oh, I agree. I hear from nurses all the time, that tell me that they're called for extra shifts, or asked to stay late or come in early. And that's just playing into all of the exhaustion, because they don't want to say no. They don't want to let their patients down for one, and they don't want to let their coworkers down. Because everyone's exhausted, but it's not helping anyone by doing that.
Sandra:
No. And it happened actually yesterday, we were getting crazy yesterday. And I was asked, "Do you want to stay back a little bit?" And I said, and the words came up before I even said, "Actually, I'm bothered staying back, I'm exhausted. I've been team leader, and I've been running all day." But then that sense of obligation just fell in, and I said, "I can do an hour." And it was an hour, but often it's not. Often it's two, three, four hours. And it's like, I'm giving up my family for this? So priorities are very a challenge.
Beth Quaas:
Yes. And I know in the United States, and you tell me what it's like over there, they're throwing big money at people to put in more hours. Paying people to travel, and move to different units. So money is a big factor motivating people, but again, they're burning out at unprecedented rates.
Sandra:
Couldn't agree with you more. And nursing universally, you don't go into nursing to make millions, you're going to serve. And so you follow where you need to serve. And yes, being thrown a lot of money, very junior nurses have been thrown a lot of money to work in hubs, or to work in hospitals, or to relocate into a regional area as well. So they see that we're an essential service, but they see us as doers, "Do the job." But who are we, doing the job? And that's the area that is very untapped.
And we've got beautiful resources away from the doing, just by virtue of being who we are, that people don't even know what they don't know. Their own capability. And that's what's really highlighted for me. You can be trained to be a nurse, you can be trained with all the tasks and skills and all of that, but who are you doing that? Who's Sandra? Who's Beth? What other things can you offer that are seamless and effortless? Like empathy, and compassion, and love. Not just for your patients, but for everybody. Your colleagues, your team, your boss, all of it.
Beth Quaas:
Nursing is worth the money they're making. I'm not taking away from the money that they are making, nursing should be making more money. But you're right, there has to be more than just the money, because it's certainly something that people are going to go to. It causes a divide then, in the nurses that are staying and working in the hospitals, and then those that are traveling to those hospitals making more money. And so what are we doing to retain those good nurses as well, that are staying in those hospitals. They don't get the big sign on bonuses, they don't get the big hourly wage increases, because they're these hospital employees. And so I know that there is some divide. And then the travel nurses, maybe, aren't treated as well either. Because they're being given the, "We all know what assignments that you get when you're a traveler, or making more money than someone else." So do you think that's happening as well?
Sandra:
100%. We call them agency nurses, or bank nurses. And so I remember when I was working in the wards and I was a permanent staff member, we'd give the agency staff to do the crappy jobs. Like the heavy patients, the really hard stuff. And I'm guilty of that. I have awareness now, and so when I see, currently working in the pandemic. And I think it's very timely that we're talking about this kind of environment that we're in right now. Is that, you can tell the nurses, not all of them, but there's a majority that are doing it just for the money. Just by, "Oh my God. I'm going to make a bit of money here today." So I can see the transactional nursing going on there, rather than the meaningful nursing going around here. And I don't mean to say that in judgment, people do agency work for whatever reason they do. I'm actually casual as well, I do it because it suits my life. But there's just a difference, and I'm guilty of allocating people that I don't know to work that is crap. I think we've all done it. [inaudible 00:09:16]
Beth Quaas:
I think we all have, you're right.
Sandra:
I think we all have. And what I realize now, is about everybody deserves a fair go. And everybody deserves equity in their role, no matter who you are. And support around that.
Beth Quaas:
So talk a little bit more about that, when you're talking about new nurses coming in and experienced nurses. And how you see equity working there?
Sandra:
You know it's funny. Sometimes I see that the experienced nurses, there's two. The overgenerous, giving, "How about you try it this way? Let me support you with a new skill." Or, "Hey, you can talk to someone to get a lot more information out of." And, "This is how you talk to someone that's English isn't their first language, or someone that's elderly. You don't have to yell at them to get a point across. Then there's the nurses that keep their cards very close to their chest, and don't want to share. There's that fear of, "If I tell you too much, you're going to know too much and you're going to be better than me. So I'll take it with me." Do you know what I mean?
Beth Quaas:
Yes. I get that.
Sandra:
And they stay in this pipe, if you like, of just so much experience, but they're not letting anyone in. And I see it all the time. And it's almost like, sometimes I feel like they're waiting for the youngies to fall. They're waiting for it. Like, don't eat your young, they're eating their young.
Beth Quaas:
Right.
Sandra:
And I see it, and I go, "Oh gosh." And I really have to bite my tongue, because we're all equal here. We're all out for the same goals, I hope, is to serve. And yeah, I just find that I just have this awareness about it all now. I see it.
Beth Quaas:
Absolutely. And those young nurses that we're training are going to take care of us one day. And so we should do everything that we can to make sure they're going to give the best care that they can
Sandra:
100%. And they're only going to learn, we all learn from example don't we?
Beth Quaas:
Yes.
Sandra:
Yeah. We have an opportunity as older nurses to really give as much as we can to them. Why wouldn't we? It doesn't make sense.
Beth Quaas:
Because nursing was so much different. At least I know when I started, and probably for you as well. You've been in it a long time, too. With electronic charting and all of the electronic equipment that we use now, the hours that we spend on the actual patient care is minimal compared to everything around us.
Sandra:
I 100% agree. It's getting the paperwork in, it's getting the data in. It's making sure that you've ticked your pathways, it's making sure that you've signed where you have to sign. And then, "Oh, there's a patient here I need to look after. Oh, there's an experience I need to have that is often cut short because of protocol, or rules, or procedures coming on along here. That we have to do the paperwork because that's more important." And that's where there's a disconnect between the upper management, and funding, and government to know exactly what is going on for people. So it is our job as nurses to really represent that. That this is the reality of our lives. And that's where I see the burnout, and that's where I see the disconnect. And people only coming to work as a means to an end.
Beth Quaas:
Right.
Sandra:
Because the connection's not there.
Beth Quaas:
I agree, you hit the nail on the head. The administration follows the money, and the money is in the charting and the things that are given to the patient, but not the care of the patient. Of course the outcomes are important, but I think you're right. We need to change the focus as nurses on to what's really important. And it's not the periphery, it's not the stuff we have to spend most of our time on. It's really taking good care of that patient. And I know the last time we talked, you told me a little bit about what you think the attitude of the new nurse is maybe different now. Can you talk a little bit more about that?
Sandra:
I don't want to make over assumptions about anything, but there is a generational shift in nursing. I think when you and I started, it was very much a person centered, person focused. We wrote with our pen, we did our charts with our pen. Normally at the bedside, talking as we are doing it. A lot of it's taken away, and it's sitting at a nurse's desk and doing it away often. Not always, but often. I think that with this technological age that we're living in, there is a disconnect. The younger generation communicate a lot more via social media, and online, and on their phones. So the verbal communication is not often needed the way we had it, because that's all we had. I think that this new generation can teach us more about efficiency in how we communicate 100%. I 100% agree.
Beth Quaas:
Yes.
Sandra:
What we can teach this generation is the importance of having efficient communication, but having empathy as well. And walking into a cubicle, or walking into a ward and not having a smile on your face, because you don't smile. Well I've been a patient, and when a nurse comes in it's like, "Oh gosh, I'm an imposition for this person."
Beth Quaas:
Right.
Sandra:
"I shouldn't be here. I'm not going to ask for help, I'm not going to ask for pain relief. I'm not going to tell you how I'm feeling. That I'm scared that I don't know what's going to happen. I'm not going to tell you anything. I'll just nod my head."
Beth Quaas:
That is so important.
Sandra:
100%.
Beth Quaas:
Yes. I love that you said that. And because I know we get people that do that exact thing, and we have to recognize that.
Sandra:
Yes.
Beth Quaas:
And that's part of reading the room and being emotionally intelligent.
Sandra:
Yes.
Beth Quaas:
And I don't know, I don't teach undergraduate nurses, I don't teach brand new nurses. I teach graduate nurses that have been out for a while. And so I don't know the training that they get in emotional intelligence.
Sandra:
I know that they do, here in Australia, they do a psychology unit. Talking about anxiety, depression, dementia, very high level kind of content. There is a little bit of active listening, and a bit of communication. But that's overruled with knowing your anatomy, knowing your physiology, knowing your patho, knowing how to take a blood pressure, knowing how to recognize a deteriorating patient physically. So I think we're getting it better, I'm not saying that we're not, but we've got a way to go. There's a real gap. I even see them just how they are at work, some of them. Some of them are just, they can't do enough for you. And there are some that like, "Eh well, I'm here."
But that's not just with young nurses either. I'm not saying the youth are the worst. They're not, I've learned a lot from them. But it's also the elders of the profession, if you like, as well. It's like, "I'm just waiting for my retirement. I'm just here to just get this job done." And I think nurses are in a really unique, beautiful, and privileged position to really make a difference in someone's life. So when I'm at the vaccination hub for example, I know I'm only jabbing, but I could be the only person that that person speaks to in the whole week. So whilst it's quite transactional, it can be one of the most meaningful conversations that person has with another human being in their week.
Beth Quaas:
And you have a story to tell about that.
Sandra:
Yes. I have quite a few stories to tell about that. Just last week. So since I spoke with you, I was just in a cubicle [load 00:17:35], happened to be just jabbing that day. And this gentleman comes in, and I had to ask him about his cardiac history. And so I asked him, "Pericarditis, myocarditis, and carditis, anything like that." And he just said, "oh, I lost my wife a few months ago. I found her dead in bed, she had a massive heart attack." And this guy was in his early fifties, looked like he was a bit rough around the edges. And he just let his veil down, let his walls down, and he just spoke.
Now it wasn't I was in there for an hour with him, I was in there for 10 minutes. And he said, this is what happened to him. And I said, "Why, how does that make you feel now being in the house?" And he was like, "Oh it's really hard, I'm by myself. I've got not many friends around me." And at the end of the day I didn't have a solution for him, but he thanked me for just listening to him.
Beth Quaas:
Yeah.
Sandra:
And I said, "That is my privilege to listen to you. Thank you for sharing."
Beth Quaas:
That is... And he's one of many.
Sandra:
That's just it! And it's taking the opportunity. It's not looking at adulthood muscle, and putting a needle in that muscle. It's like, these people come in with a story. And you don't have time to be going, "Oh my gosh, what's going on?" But people come to you that need to come to you. This is what happens, so it's just what happens. No one can explain it, but people come to you. And not just in the cubicle, I'm telling you in life, when they need to come to you. When they're ready.
Beth Quaas:
And you had another important [inaudible 00:19:15] story that I know, was a young person that came to you and opened up to you in the very short time. A young woman.
Sandra:
I've had quite a few, another one actually. This lady came in, and I have to ask, "Are you pregnant?" In one of the questions. And she goes, "No, I'm not pregnant." And I said, OK. And then we went on with the questions she goes, "I've just actually miscarried." It was a very young girl and I said, "Oh gosh, I'm so sorry." And she goes, "I'm so sorry that I'm crying." And I said, "You don't need to apologize for crying, because your grief is your biggest healer." Now I didn't rehearse this, this just came in. "Your grief is your biggest healer, feel the grief, be the grief, so that you can now heal to create a new life." I do not know where that came from. She came into my cubicle, I said those words, not rehearsed, not on a pathway, not on an assessment tool. It just came in.
And she was so grateful when she left. She felt listened, she felt safe. And I felt, "What a privilege." What a privilege to be able to do that. And that's the gift of nursing that no other profession has, I really believe that. My only hope is that people recognize the wealth in other people. The fear, the loss, the sadness. That's the biggest lesson I want to leave in this world, is that it's not just about the hip replacement, it's not just about the cancer treatment, it's about the person. Yeah I feel like I've made a difference in lots of people's lives, not for bragging, but just for listening.
Beth Quaas:
And how important that is for people to hear. Because it is that few minutes that you spend with someone, you've made all the difference in the world for that person at that time. That's amazing
Sandra:
Because that's the way I would like to be treated, that's the only reason. And that I have empathy for others. But it's just like, "Well, how will I? I'm no one to you if I'm coming in just for the jab, I'm no one to you." But I am, but I shouldn't have to prove it. Sometimes it's just an energy that you feel, that you just got to just drop into it. And it's not something that you can learn at uni or at college, it's just something that you learn with experience, and stopping and reflecting. And I think nurses aren't great at it. We're not really good at reflecting.
So what I find, is that when there's been a critical incident, or a, we called it a code blue, an emergency. And we save the life, we get the person into ICU and they're fine. And then there's the fragmented nurses. They go, "Are you okay? Are you okay?" And it's like, "Yeah, I'm fine. I'm fine." And they're not. And then they just go, "Oh, that's what you have to put up with with nursing. That's it, that's what you have to put up with." And it's not. And people that are asking, "Are you okay?" Often don't know what to do if they're not.
Beth Quaas:
Right.
Sandra:
And so, it's not about being a psychologist, it's just providing space to listen. And that's it.
Beth Quaas:
We had a similar program that was developed at the hospital I was at. If we had a death in the OR, or a poor outcome, unexpected, they would offer a debrief.
Sandra:
Yes.
Beth Quaas:
To the team that was involved at that time. And the funny thing is, we rarely had people come to those when they were held. And I don't know if they thought they didn't need it, or they saw it as a sign of weakness if they came. But it was a service that was offered, and it really didn't go anywhere.
Sandra:
No. And it feels shameful to ask for help, I think, generally. But there's also that tokenistic, "Oh, we better offer this to the staff, because this is what you do." And then it's like, "Oh, if I rock up to do it, they're going to think I'm not coping. And they're going to think that there's something wrong with me, they're going to think... Oh, no. So I'll just leave it because no one else is doing that. So everyone else is fine." When no one is fine. So I think that nurse managers, and nurses in general need to learn how to communicate, and just sit people down and just say, "How you actually feeling?"
Beth Quaas:
Absolutely.
Sandra:
That's it. That's the only question you need to ask, how you're actually feeling. And that is it. And if they're fine they say, "Okay. Oh no, I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm fine." And they just want to get on with it. And they don't want to open up, it's a conversation say, "Well, you know that I'm here if you need to." And it's a trusted, confidential conversation that we're having.
Beth Quaas:
Great.
Sandra:
That is it. Even if you just make the offering, but make the offering.
Beth Quaas:
And especially now in this time of burnout, and exhaustion, and depression, and anxiety that we're all feeling of being in this profession. Managers, I don't think, are trained. They're not equipped to know what to do either.
Sandra:
No.
Beth Quaas:
And so we need to figure out a way to help our supervisors, our managers, our directors. Help them realize what to do as well, and offer something to those people.
Sandra:
I think it's acknowledging the overwhelm. I think it's acknowledging that first. Yet, it's crappy at the moment, it's hard, it's relentless. This pandemic's not going away just yet. There are things that we need to do, there are people we need to keep safe. So whilst we've always wanted to keep our patients safe, it's not always about the patient. It's about our teams, keeping our teams safe, supported. But how does a manager do that if they've never done this before? Never been in a pandemic before? How do we bolster them up and equip them?
And it's not something that they can necessarily read in a book, it's having a conversation with someone that knows how to communicate with people. "Have you tried this strategy?" Doesn't cost a lot of money. Or why aren't nurses asking each other what's going on for them, at a senior level? There's a lot of ego that plays in that profession. I think that's universal, not just in nursing. But there is ego that plays in that we need to be seen to be knowing what we are doing, and having it all together all the time. And I think that's our biggest downfall as well. And if we're living up in the ego, and not in a heart felt space, then we're never going to get past this need to prove ourselves that we're okay.
Beth Quaas:
I couldn't agree more. Yeah. We need to let go of that.
Sandra:
I think when you're feeling and living from your shoulders up into your head, rather than your shoulders down, there that's where it becomes the disconnect.
Beth Quaas:
That is great. Well, you have so much experience, and you are taking a lot of your experience, your knowledge, and you're moving into doing some new things as well. Tell us a little bit about that.
Sandra:
Yes I am. And I have had a lot of resistance around it. So if anyone's trying to find something new to do, feel the resistance, it's going to come. And boy, mine's like a big wall. So what I'm looking at doing is moving into a different scope in my life, and focusing on this exact conversation. Around cultures, around empathy, around communication. And in different sectors, not only in health. I'd like to spread it wide to disability, to age care, and general practice. And really focus on how we as nurses have a fantastic opportunity to really improve our own wellbeing and health, as well as the health and wellbeing of others. We have to start from ourselves, we have to start from us first. We can't give them an empty cup, and I know that's like, "Oh God, I'm not saying that again." But it's true.
Because I want people to come to work as them. I don't want people to put their representative on to say, "I'm a nurse now. I'm not a mother, I'm not a daughter, I'm not a human being." I want them to come in with that, I want people to be proud of who they are coming in. Without any, "I've got to be this person today, or that person today." Just be you because you're enough. So I have a real motivation around that, because I've been in too many jobs in my life where I had to be what people wanted me to be. And slowly I realized that, "What's going on here, who am I?" And by the end of my last job, I was a shell of a person. I was a shell, I didn't even know who the hell I was. Work became more important than family, I was crazy at home and I was professional at work. It was a real disconnect and I was mentally burnt. I was mentally burnt and I had to just walk away. I don't want that for people because good people are leaving our profession in droves.
Beth Quaas:
You just described my story to a T. I can so understand what you're talking about, and I'm glad that I had the support that I had to get through that. And just like you, I had to leave that position as well. A position that I like very much, but I could not do that, I was completely burnt out too. So I totally understand where you're coming from, and I'm so excited that you're doing something from your misfortune to teach others. What will you teach others?
Sandra:
Just start by being you, that is it. And really delve deep into the gifts that you've been given because we've all got it. So when I was, I'll tell you a quick story. When I was little, I was pretty crap at sport, at art, at crafts, at anything. And I grew up Catholic, and so what are the gifts that God gave you? And so Helen would say, "Oh yeah, I can run really fast, and I can climb the jungle gym. And oh, I can paint and do calligraphy." And all this kind of stuff.
And he goes, "Oh Sandra, what are the gifts that God gave you?" And I said, "Oh no, I'm a good listener." And I could feel the chuckles coming in. And I thought, "Oh, that's not enough. I have to be somebody else." And so all my life, I've tried to be somebody else. And now I've realized everything I have is right here. I can listen, I can understand, and I have empathy. And I want nurses to know, not to search too far out to who you really are, come back to who you really are. And it's a process, and it's not for the fainthearted. It takes commitment and discipline to show up for yourself, because we're not used to doing that.
Beth Quaas:
That is incredible, and what a great place to start. And I'm sure that that story, those giggles, those chuckles come back at you sometimes. Which is part of probably what the resistance you're feeling, that imposter syndrome that we all talk about and hear about. And you have a good handle on it. Yeah, sharing that with others is going to be so important.
Sandra:
I do, but I have my days still. Yeah. I still have my days of complete doubt, complete "What are people going to think? What are they going to say? Who am I?" And that's my biggest resistance, because I've always worried about that. And I know I'm not the only one.
Beth Quaas:
You're not the only one.
Sandra:
So that's where I'm coming from, from a place of real compassion for that child in me that was laughed at.
Beth Quaas:
Yes.
Sandra:
And how I had to pivot at a very young age to be quiet, and to not show that I couldn't do anything else. Or, people didn't expect much of me anyway, because my gifts went something you could see, it's something you could feel. But that wasn't important then.
Beth Quaas:
You are going to help so many people. And I am very thankful to have met you, and to get your story out as well. Because I think this is going to help you grow your business, there are going to be people that need what you offer. And I can't wait to watch it grow, and have people find you this way.
Sandra:
Thank you. Thank you so much for this opportunity. Nothing was rehearsed here, it's all just come in as I've been talking to you. And I want people to feel comfortable that they can do the same in life, that's it. So I'm nothing special, I'm nothing. Oh my God I'm not Oprah, I'm not Renee, I'm no one like that. I'm just me, and I'm Sandra and that's it. And I'll come in with my flavor, with my little secret herbs and spices.
Beth Quaas:
I love that. Sandra, what tips or advice would you leave for nurses?
Sandra:
Tips and advice I would leave for nurses is to listen when things don't feel right. When you feel like you're not being listened, or you feel like things aren't going right, or culture isn't right in your workplace. Because the culture that you enable is the culture that grows. And so I think it's having courage, and I think that's the key for everything, is courage. It's harder than confidence, it's harder than knowing what you're doing, it's courage that comes from your heart. And if something isn't right, people just need to speak up and have the courage, that's it. That's all I ask, to have coverage within themselves for their own self worth. And having courage and empathy for others.
Beth Quaas:
That it's amazing. And once people can do that, I can only imagine that they would feel relieved, and released of a lot of what they're holding back.
Sandra:
Yes. Yes, it's true. And things aren't as hard, things aren't as hard anymore. You go through life with ease, it's not, "I've got to work hard to achieve this." It's just like, "I'm going to feel my way. And if it doesn't feel right..." And I think in our last conversation, we talked about intuition. And if we are thinking in our heads, we switch off our intuition in our gut or in our heart. So it's really getting into that, and finding the intuition that will then propel you forward with the courage and the empathy that way, rather than in your head. "These are things I should be saying. Oh, I should find the solution here and there." It doesn't come from here, comes from something very deep that all nurses have, because we've all got our intuition.
Beth Quaas:
We do. We do. I thank you so much for coming on and sharing your insights, your thoughts, your stories. Because they're very powerful. And I want people to be able to find you, where can people find you?
Sandra:
So I'm starting, I'm still in the theater stage at the moment. So I'm going through to launching a podcast as well, Start By Being You. And I'm building my website, and Instagram, and Facebook handles and stuff as we speak. So I'll have it in the show notes anyway, I'll pop it in. And come and join me there, and have a chat. And the time just to reflect and to connect.
Beth Quaas:
I can't wait to come and listen to your podcast when it's up and running.
Sandra:
Thank you very much. It's been absolute pleasure being here. Thank you Beth.
Speaker 4:
Keep moving on. Don't you give now, you have made your vows. You might not know how, but you will find-
Intro:
[crosstalk 00:35:25] Don't Eat Your Young was produced in partnership with True Story FM. Engineering by Andy Nelson, music by The Light Hearts. Find the show, show notes, and transcripts at donteatyouryoung.com. If your podcast app allows ratings and reviews, please consider doing that for our show. But the best thing you could do to support the show is to share it with a friend or colleague. Thank you for listening.
